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Ryan Michler is The Man, The Beard, The Guy behind the manliest podcast on the planet, Order of Man. If it weren’t for Ryan and his movement, the W2 Capitalist wouldn’t exist as it does today. Ryan is also responsible for introducing me to Operation Underground Railroad, the beneficiary of our upcoming W2CapSummit.com
Connect with Ryan:
- What does it mean to Protect. Provide. Preside?
- Find your purpose
- “We have gone away from being strong, rugged, independent and tough to a collection of wimpy dependent whiners.”
- What does it mean to be a man?
Links mentioned in this episode:
[00:00:19] You are addressing the gap between your successful fulfilling W2 job and to building wealth for your family through real estate investing. You are ready to earn invest. Repeat. Welcome to the W2 Capitalist podcast. Now let’s get to work. Here is your host, Jay helds.
[00:00:47] Hey, what’s up, everybody? My name is Jay Helms and I’m the founder of this study to cap US podcast movement. And now we have this summit coming up.
[00:00:55] And I wanted to bring in a special guest, introduce you guys, because if it weren’t for him, really, none of this would exist.
[00:01:02] And somebody who I’ve looked up to for years now, he is the man. He is the beard, which we were just just taking a jab at because he has trimmed his beard. Believe it or not. But he is the guy who runs the manliest podcast on the planet. And I’m happy to say that order of man. Brian MAKLER, welcome.
[00:01:22] Jay, what’s up, brother? I’m looking forward to this conversation. I’m excited about what you’re doing. And, yeah, honor to be a small part of it. Yeah.
[00:01:28] And so when I say I have looked up to you for years, so I was introduced to you by a friend of mine. And he now we’re talking he’s actually a partner in some of the real real estate investing deals that I have. And we were just chatting one day as a man. I kind of get this whole wealth building motion going in place. Where I really need to focus on is being a better husband, a better father. And he said, why have you ever heard of the Water Man podcast? I know. So instantly I start download episodes, I think, while recenter chat. And that’s how I got connected to you. And then from there, I joined your Facebook group. Your mastermind, which I’m jealous of, your name or your mastermind, the outer council. And then you started offering some some classes and courses excuse me, on creating tribes and podcasts. And ultimately, if it weren’t for you doing all those things, we would be here. Right. The deputy kabbalist would not exist. And through that group that I was, I forget the actual tribe. I’m not in anymore.
[00:02:26] Third kid comes along at change jobs. Things kind of get rougher around. Got a lot going on. Yeah. I’m looking forward to the day when things kind of quiet down. I can jump back into the hour in council and get my head down.
[00:02:37] They never quiet down. It only it only gets more so.
[00:02:41] Well, I don’t know. I’m kind of looking forward to that a little bit, but. But anyway.
[00:02:49] But if it weren’t for all that, you and I wouldn’t be having this conversation. And you introduce me. You had Tim Tim Ballard, who is the founder of Operation Underground Railroad. On your podcast several years ago. Then we did as our try as our group. Forget the name of it. But our group was in the art council. We were challenge to do a fundraiser and we chose operation on our camera road for that. And that was a couple years ago. So all of this coming together. I got to thank you for for that. But that’s not really what we’re here to talk about, right? We’re here to talk about something. Your mantra, if you will, about how men are there to protect, provide and provide for their families. So let’s dive into that a little bit, because one of the things that happened recently I had to travel was out of work, not at work. I was out of town for a work. And my 5 year old was, I think, the second night into it. He was upset. And yeah, I actually asked my wife because he’s getting upset. He says, who’s gonna be here to protect us? And I instantly thought of our man as like man. But my son actually thinks or sees me as that protector. So let’s dive into that. But I want to ask you a question first. This question you ask most everyone on your your podcast. And I know you’ve been asked a couple of times, but what does it mean to be a man?
[00:04:18] Yeah, that’s the question I’ve asked almost three hundred men on the podcast now, and it’s really interesting to hear these people’s responses and without having every response in front of me, I can tell you the same general thread lines, which is interesting because those thread lines tend to fall out right in line with what we what we think about when it comes to being a man.
[00:04:38] Which is that of a protector, a provider and a presider, a leadership leader. So everyone that we talk to, when they share what their thoughts are, usually it falls into one, if not all of those those camps. And I think this is just something that we instinctively, as men know and do and want to step into. And we fall short of that. We feel less capable and frankly, less manly. Others, a great book called Manhood in the Making by David Gilmore.
[00:05:03] And he actually went through and he researched different groups, different tribes, different cultures to see what their thoughts and views on masculinity were in some of these cultures throughout most of time and throughout all of history. Some that have never even been connected with or introduced to each other. Think of masculinity and very much the same way that of a protector provider. And the third component that he found was procreation. I changed that to preside leader because again, generally most cultures throughout all of time in history look at men as the leaders when things go wrong. Generally, it’s the man that people look to, right? If there’s emergencies, natural disasters, certain threats, just like your son, who’s gonna be here to protect us? Your wife, I’m sure, is fully capable and and has some phenomenal traits. But people look to the men instinctively and inherently. So what it means to be a man is that of a protector provider, presider. Also, I would say, is somebody who’s capable of and has a desire to take on some responsibility, personal responsibility and accountability and then accountability responsible for responsibility for people around him. So if you look at your file, a little boy, for example, he’s not a man.
[00:06:14] He’s not even expected to be. Because if he does something foolish or gets out of line or misbehaves, as 5 year olds do, there’s no real accountability other than maybe a scolding or a little slap on the wrist or a time out. Right. Right. If there’s some sort of some some damage that he causes or, you know, whatever, whatever that damage may cause, it’s going to come back to you as a man. Right. So there is no personal accountability, responsibility. This is why I’ve seen young young men, 14, fifteen, sixteen year old young men behave more like men than some 30, 40, 50 year olds that I’ve seen who can’t take accountability, responsibility for their life. If things aren’t going right, it’s somebody else’s fault. It’s my boss. It’s my wife. It’s the economy. It’s the president. It is this. Not that, heaven forbid, they put any burden of responsibility on themselves. So, again, a man is somebody who takes accountability, responsibility for himself and others, and is a or at least on the path to becoming a protector, provider and presider.
[00:07:11] Also my answer. Please don’t ask me lot. Well, I’ve I’ve said it a few times.
[00:07:17] So, you know, one of the things that I love about you is you articulate very well what you believe your purpose is right. And you found your purpose. And it didn’t come without some bumps and bruises and turmoil that you had to go through. But you found your purpose and you seem to have. Now, this is you sort I looked at in clarity on what your life is about or should be about metaphor. One of the quotes I heard you say is you are driven to be significant. You don’t want to leave or live an insignificant life. Could you break that down a little bit more for me?
[00:07:57] Yeah. You know, I don’t know if I don’t know if that’s always necessarily a healthy thought, but that is certainly something I consider. I want to be cygnet. Forget the lives of first and foremost, my wife and kids.
[00:08:07] And that’s that’s where the real emphasis lies for me. And then above and beyond that, in the lives of the people who tune into what we’re doing via the podcast or our movement in some capacity and really be a catalyst for growth and change. So when men send me emails or messages on Instagram sharing with me how they’ve locked down their marriage or they’ve read, rekindled the relationship or connected on a deeper level with their kids or they’ve lost 30 pounds or they participated in their first marathon. And and they they give me some credit for that. It’s it’s very humbling. It’s and I won’t take all the credit. Right. You even said that we wouldn’t be here if it weren’t for me. You know, I don’t know if that’s true. I mean, there’s plenty of people that have listened to what I’m doing and what I share that aren’t willing to take action. Right. So you put forth a lot of action. But to know that some of the things that we share and some of the messaging and some of the conversations that we have with some incredible guests plays a small part in the lives of people is very important to me.
[00:09:09] You know, I feel like we as men have a moral obligation or responsibility to share the lessons learned, to turn around and offer a hand to those who are looking to. Grow and expand and get better and improve. Certainly that’s not everybody, and I’m not here to rescue people who are interested in being rescued. But if there’s men out there, whether it’s fathers, husbands, leaders of the community, coaches, business owners, employees, entrepreneurs that feel like they need some assistance. And I have something that I can share or give them access to, something that I have available to me, which is conversations with some of the most successful men on the planet. Then why wouldn’t I share that I have that that moral responsibility to to offer some assistance and guidance and help and to those who are interested. And I love helping them and those who aren’t, you know, maybe at some point they will be or maybe never. But we’re here for those who are interested in improving as men and.
[00:10:02] I have improved, at least I think my wife would probably joke around and say, well, he’s got a lot more improvement to go to, but no, she said. Yeah, she she does have some phenomenal traits and I wouldn’t be anywhere at today if it wasn’t for her cause. One of the things you talked about there is taking action, right. I took action to do list your podcast and then join your group and get involved in your mastermind. So this discussion came up in my Facebook group the other day is like I was essentially I call it a handout. Right. A guy was looking for some free advice. And I’m like, I don’t know. He wanted to wouldn’t necessarily free advice. He wanted to engage on some One-On-One personal time. Like, I don’t have time for that. Like I had all these other resources and I’m not interested in doing that. Right. Right. Would cause some sort of debate in the Facebook group. But essentially, I was trying to push the guy to see if he was willing to just take action. Right? He was. Yeah. And they didn’t he wasn’t I didn’t waste anymore my time. And I don’t know what’s happened to him since. What I struggle with the fact that I have all these resources and I want people to start taking action, and it sounds like you’ve run across folks who are interested in what you’re doing and what is not what you’re providing, but just can’t. And I don’t want to say go to the edge, but go to the edge and jump right to take that next step. Do you run it? I’m sure you run into it a lot. But how do you convince those guys who were just on the edge? Take that next step.
[00:11:41] Because as in real estate investing, until you really get your first deal done, you’re going to be you’re more than likely going to suffer from paralysis analysis. Sure. And you probably ran across this in your wealth and financial advising business that you used to have where people would get to this point where they need to invest in something in the back away.
[00:12:03] What’s your best advice for people who were will write early as they know what they need to do. They just can’t find that. One of the things I love that you say to find the courage to take action. Right. How do you find that courage?
[00:12:16] Will you have it? It’s inherent. You just have to foster it. You know, it’s like it’s like some. Sometimes you think your muscles are just buried under that that extra layer of fat that you’ve accumulated over the past decade. Right there. There. Right. Your abs are there.
[00:12:29] You just got under specifically? Not specifically.
[00:12:32] I mean, I’m not going to name any names or anything. That’s me, too. And there’s things that I’m afraid to take action on. I’ve got a big event that I’m planning that is going to kind of scares me a little bit. But, you know, I’m willing to take that action because I know we all can exhibit courage. I mean, that’s just a choice. It really is. It’s just a choice. You decide whether you’re going to exert some level of courage. And when you do, when you take that leap, you begin to develop some competence. That’s the next steps. You go from courage to competence. And you can’t be competent if you never learn how to do the thing and you can’t learn through a seminar or a book, you can learn the fundamentals. But until you apply that information, there just isn’t the the the wisdom. There’s the knowledge, but not the wisdom. So you have knowledge, which is the information. Wisdom is the application of that information. So knowledge is wonderful. That’s the foundation. But now you need to turn that into wisdom, which is applying what you know. Once you do that, you start to develop some some capacity and capability to perform. This is competence, right? And then through that competence comes this next component, which is confidence. So a lot of guys ask me, hey, you know, how can I be confident enough to take risk? Well, you can’t.
[00:13:45] You can’t be confident in taking that step because you’ve never taken that step before. Now you can rely on past experiences where you’ve been afraid and you’ve overcome that. That might help you a little bit. Develop some faith in yourself. You can rely on coaches and mentors, people that have gone through what you have gone through, that have come out the other side unscathed and managed to build themselves into something. You can use that as an element of faith. What is essentially you’re going to have to be courageous enough to try to take that step, to take that leap. And then once you do, you can see, OK. All right. I got this a little uneasy. There’s some risk, maybe some downside. Maybe some losses here and there. But I’m OK. I’m steady ground. You develop the confidence and then that perpetuates it becomes a cycle. So now you have at a level of confidence which enables you to display more courage, greater risks, bigger, more audacious goals. You know, you said you used an interesting word. You said, how do you convince people to take that next step? I don’t like I’m not here to convince anybody. It’s it doesn’t work. People who are not ready are not ready. And the only way that you can get them to leap is to push them, which is not really moral either. Right. So I’m not interested in chasing people around.
[00:14:56] I’m not interested in trying to, like, convince people I’m right or they should do this. But, hey, you know what? When you’re ready. Let me give you a couple of pointers and some tips, maybe even a framework to run on. And if this serves you because you’re ready, then by all means. I’ve had guys come, for example, into the iron counsel who thought that just because they paid a few bucks a month, it you know, somehow their life would turn around and they weren’t willing to do anything. These guys leave and they’re upset that, you know, they didn’t get anything out of it. But I’m like, man, would you put in what effort to put forth? And they come up with some reasons and most the time, some excuses. But ultimately, it’s just because they didn’t put in the work. And interesting enough that the guys who put in the work in the framework, you use the resources who rely on each other, the other men. Those are the guys who get the most value out of it. So if you want something, you got to give something. This is just a lot of sacrifice. You cannot have until you’re willing to sacrifice something. Time, energy, resources, money, attention, energy risk. That’s the cost. That’s the price. That’s the ticket entry. You want to play the game? You got to pay the price.
[00:15:58] In the same way with my mastermind is the people who have been there for over a year and put in the work. They’ve more than doubled their real estate portfolio course. Of course, they have credible to say and right now, 75, 80 percent of the folks who have been there for a year. Yeah.
[00:16:14] I mean, if they’re around that long for a year. Odds are that they’re doing the work and they see value and they’re getting value from being there. But a lot of these guys fall out within 30 to 90 days. And just because they thought something was going to happen, even though they weren’t willing to change anything about their lifestyle or behaviors or thoughts.
[00:16:30] It’s like joining a gym, right? You think because if you think because you join a gym, that your body and your muscles are going to change. Now you’ve got to get out. You’ve got to do the work. Right. Right. You I was going to ask you, what’s the last thing that you face that that you were fearful of? Right. And but you conquered that fear and you were going to take the curves, take a step. And it sounds like the big event, which I don’t know if you got those details yet or not.
[00:16:55] No, no, I can’t go into details on that. We’re working through that right now. But yeah, we’ve decided to do a big event next year. And so it’s going to take a significant amount of capital to put this thing together. There’s gonna be a lot of risk, of course, on my end because I have to fund it right prior to knowing if it’s going to work. It’ll work, though. And again, I rely on past experiences and other things I’ve done to create the level of success that we’ve had. You know, even moving out here, I don’t know whether you know or not, but I moved to Maine keeping up with seven or eight months ago from southern Utah, which was a huge risk. You know, we knew very, very few people out here. We knew like seven people. There’s no good reason for us to be out here. But we wanted an adventure. We wanted to try something new. And so we we invested a lot of money to come out here and partake in this adventure and the property and updating the house and getting it to our standards and where it needs to be. And it’s it’s been an incredible journey. UPS and downs and scary parts. I remember the first week we moved here. I just remember vividly looking at my wife and asking her with all genuineness and seriousness, like, how did we do the right thing?
[00:18:00] She’s like, I don’t know if she had the same crazy look on her face that I did. And that was a week into it, maybe two weeks into it. And since then, we haven’t thought twice about it’s just been a an an amazing, amazing adventure.
[00:18:12] Sounds like you step out of your comfort zone.
[00:18:15] Oh, completely. I mean, it would have been easy for me to. I grew up in southern Utah. My wife is born and raised. She’s fourth generation from southern Utah. All of our friends, there are kids as friends. Everything that we know about life is in southern Utah. So for us to just pack our bags and come out here to the other side of the country posed a huge risk and took a lot of courage on her part and my kids part and mine as well.
[00:18:35] So I was curious about the big event. I know you host a father and son or you have in the past. Well, I think it is an annual father and son.
[00:18:45] Now, roughly, yeah, maybe twice a year, you know, but no more than twice a year.
[00:18:52] But yeah, we’ve got cop one coming up in June of this year and I’m I’m looking when my son gets away. I’m working.
[00:18:58] Yeah. He’s gotta get on for that. Yeah. I mean it. Yes. It’s good to get in shape.
[00:19:03] But don’t let that be a reason not to come out.
[00:19:06] No. I mean I did a seven minute workout this morning and I’m.
[00:19:11] I’m. I need some help in that.
[00:19:14] It’s amazing how how good you can work your body out in a. A matter of seven minutes.
[00:19:19] I started jujitsu not too long ago and we rode for anywhere from six to ten minute rounds. It’s amazing how after ten minutes of somebody trying to, you know, roll, you hurt, you stretch, you kill you. Like how how quickly you can get tired in ten minutes. It shouldn’t be that way, but it is. It’s a testament to him.
[00:19:41] I’m scared. No additional brown would look like. Say that again. I’m scared of what a two minute round might look like to build up to it.
[00:19:48] Right. Two minutes might be exhausting at first. And then three minutes and four minutes and 10 minutes. And then you get better at it.
[00:19:53] You get more capable of running up on time. I want to make sure we cover, you know, what the order of man is about. And one of the quotes we’re talking about, how are you on the London real thing is back in December when that release but one of the quotes on there was we have gone away from being strong, rugged, independent and tough to a collection of wimpy dependent whiners and not just men, but, you know, there’s a lot of focus on the millennial generation, generation and the workforce and that stuff.
[00:20:26] But I think you’re right along that side. And I am, too, right? I am still every day I kind of look at things and I hear stuff on your podcast, nasty stuff in your Facebook group thinking, how do I relate to this to to my world? And am I just as bad? Right. Yeah. Most of the time it is. Yes. Right. And then I’ll have to get up and I’ll just face what I’ve learned as if I dread if I’m dreading to do something, that’s the next thing I should go do. It is. Yeah. It’s a good indicator for show results that you’re picking up on that trigger for me. But what is that quote? What do you actually mean by that? And how can we get back to being strong, rugged, independent and tough?
[00:21:07] I think at the core of the problem is we are constantly looking for other people to solve our problems. And we know they will.
[00:21:17] Yeah, I mean, I wrote a book a couple of years ago called Sovereignty and I outlined how we have given up a lot of the power and control and authority in our own lives in exchange for a little perceived safety, comfort, security. And so we give over our sovereignty to other people are our spouses, our bosses, the government. And in a lot of cases and we think that because, you know, we’ve given over that authority that somehow the tradeoff is that these people or individuals or group of individuals is going to provide for us. The problem with that is that nobody is ever going to have your interests at heart the way that you ought to have your interests at heart. And if you’re you’re assigning your your control and your power and authority over your life to somebody else, they’re going to do you an inferior job, inevitably an inferior job. And so but it’s convenient, right? It’s easy. It’s easier to say, hey, you know, you provide this is why a minimum wage is a big deal. This is why welfare programs continue to expand is because it’s easier for somebody to provide the solutions than me to actually go out and work right and carve my own path.
[00:22:30] But it’s infinitely more rewarding. It’s infinitely more fulfilling. And you make yourself capable and always you know, the thing I see and what I liken it to is a bird, for example, who’s out in the wild and injures his wing and the rescue organization takes that bird and brings it in and then nurses it back to health. The whole idea is that, hey, we’re just going get you good enough where you can go back out to the wild and live your life. But if you hold on to that injured animal too long, it becomes accustomed to this life of ease and comfort. And then it’s reintroduced into the wild and it gets destroyed. It’s the same way here. And I think there’s a greater play here that we can maybe talk about another time. But yeah, people are wrestling for your sovereignty, for your control, so they can manipulate you so they can control you. And it’s your responsibility to make sure you maintain that to the power that you have and be the be the solution to your own problems. And that’s what I was referring to when I talked about that quote. Yeah.
[00:23:33] And I highly recommend the book Sovereignty. It’s on my bookshelf, which I normally point to is behind me. But now that I have this banner. So, yes, I appreciate that, man. It’s a it’s a great book.
[00:23:44] It’s one of those things I need to read every year, just as a reminder. Right.
[00:23:50] Yeah, well, me too. And we all fall and our old all old ways of thinking and doing things in that, you know, the status quo. So you got to fight against it.
[00:23:57] Absolutely. All right. Right now, we’re coming up on time and you’ve got a hard stop. But your book podcast, Iren, cancel your blog, everything. Even the beard can be seen and then found out more on our man dot com. Also, follow you.
[00:24:12] Is it at Ryan Meckler on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, all at Ryan McLear? That’s right.
[00:24:19] Thank you very much. And again, a sincere thank you for what you do, how you do it, because I know I almost said this. I was thinking about this on my way home to record this is that I know he’s so freakin humble. He’s not going to take credit for this. He’s going to throw it back in my face about taking action. But really, if you had not done what you’ve been doing over the last couple years, none of this, the background, none of that W-2 cap was the summit that we’re putting on introduction to operation of Operation Underground Railroad. I don’t know why that’s a tongue twister for me, but it. All of that is because of what you do. So sincere. Thank you. I appreciate. Thank you much.
[00:24:58] I’m I’m humbled to know that and glad to be a small part of it. I appreciate what you’re doing and I’m certainly inspired by you as well.
[00:25:04] Thank you. That means more than you’ll ever know. Absolutely. Ever going round. I’ll talk to you. Thank you.